I find it really interesting that Holden becomes happy just from watching his sister on the carousel. He is depressed throughout the entire book, but this one moment makes him the happiest he has been. I wonder why that is. Any opinions???
It has to be because it reminds him of his childhood with her and Allie. He must also feel like it keeps her innocent and that she is still a little kid who is oblivious to what the world is.
I think this makes Holden happy because he sees the joy and innocence in Phoebe. Holden knows the true joy of seeing his sister grow up into a great young person.
Holden loves his little sister more than anything else in the world, he would do anything for her. So her being happy is like Christmas for him he is on cloud nine when he is with Pheobe.
When Holden is walking, he tells us that he keeps envisioning himself disappearing after he steps off the curb. He says “Allie, don’t let me disappear. Allie, don’t let me disappear. Allie, don’t let me disappear. Please, Allie”. Out of all the things that Holden has done to suggest he has a mental issue, I think this is one of the weirdest and shows that he needs help the most. I mean, why would you think that you’re going to just disappear after you step off the curb?!
When we read this part in the book, that’s what I knew that Holden definitely had some sort of mental problem. It was weird, but it shows how messed up he is and how much he needs some help.
This definitely shows that Holden needed to be in a mental institution a lot sooner. When Holden is going through something he refers to Allie a lot to help him. I wonder if he sees Allie still and just doesn’t except the fact that he is gone.
I agree, this does reveal how mentally disturbed Holden is. He could be imagining this due to his lack of sleep and food, which are two other signs that he is seriously sick and needs help. When Holden envisions this, the person he is thinking about is Allie. Allie’s death is the source of all of his emotional and mental problem, which he reveals from this incident.
I think that this does show that Holden has mental issues out of everything else that we have seen. He has said he wanted to die many times, but when he is talking to Allie it’s almost like a whole other issue. We see that Holden obviously misses Allie. Maybe Holden has so much aggression toward himself for not being able to go to Allie’s funeral. Plus Holden saw James Castle after he had jumped out the window. These types of things have an affect on people.
This part of the book is the moment where we see him really having a mental and physical meltdown. It is obvious that Holden really does has mental issues.
I think he’s happiest when around Phoebe because she reminds him of that innocence. I think it reminds him of both Allie and how easy things are as a child.
Phoebe is the closest person to Holden after Allie died. Holden wants to keep the innocence in Phoebe and seeing her on the carousel shows Holden that even though Phoebe is growing up she still has her innocence.
A very good point, Sabrina. She even tells Holden that she is too big to ride the carousel but Holden insists that she get on. Holden knows that she is getting bigger and will soon experience some of the horrible things the world has to offer so he enjoys very much to see her having fun on the carousel as a child.
I agree, Holden and Phoebe have a relationship that is not like any other relationship that Holden has had since the death of Allie. Holden feels comfortable around Phoebe and shares many thoughts with her that he can not tell others.
I believe that Holden is happy watching his sister on the carousel because it is taking him back to the time when he use to ride the carousel. Holden loves the idea of the innocence that a child has and he does not want to think of that being taken away as they become older.
Good point Karlie. I also think that he is happy when he watches his sister ride the carousel is because it takes him back and reminds him what it was like to be a child and he wishes he was still young and innocent. We see Holden show his love for innocence in children all throughout the book and that is just another example.
This may be the point that Holden realizes that he doesn’t want to go away because he would be away from Phoebe. Holden doesn’t want to go through missing anyone and feeling lonely again.
With this scene it made me wonder why he is so happy just from watching his sister on the carousel. I think he realizes that some things in life are good. Him and his sister are close so to watch her be happy, thats all he cares about.
I think that he becomes instantly happy when seeing Phoebe on the carousel is because he cares so much for her and that children in general seem to make Holden happy.
Yep I got one. Remember throughout the story how holden watches children. He loves watching them and gets a kick out of their conversations and actions. When he sees his sister on the ride, he see’s someone who truly loves and cares for him, with him, and having a good time.
I feel like this makes Holden very happy because of the tight bond him and his sister share. Holden needs to have his little sister, and she needs to have him. They keep each other happy and when they are together, they bond even more every time they are together. They needed this bonding time so they can try to move on from their younger brother’s death. Holden knows that they need each other now, and that is way he is happy.
The ending of the book was really strange I thought. It just did not have no excitement really at the end. Like Mrs. Seidel said there was really no climax to the book and that is the reason there was not a great ending. I am happy he finally went home and seen his parents. They are probably the ones that sent him to the mental instituttion. He seemed really happy there at the end when Phoebe was riding the courasel and when he decided to stay home. Obviously he still needed help but at least he was happy.
I thought the ending was short, I feel like it didn’t really tell what everyone was wanting to know. How he got there? But left us to guess the rest of the story. It told us why but never how. It was a little frustrating. I agree with the thought that he probably went home and his parents sent him to get help.
The ending of the book was strange, ending in a very odd way. Holden decided to stop saying anymore about his past, which ended the book. I wish it would have been more exciting, having more of a happy ending or something. I wanted to know what happens after he gets out of the mental institution, if he changes his life around or continues to be the Holden we all know.
I think that Holden is becoming better and learning how to handle the stress at the end when he finishes his story. He seems to want to make everything better and make his future a bit more hopeful. He does say that he is not sure if he is going to apply himself when he goes back or not. So maybe he wont get back to being a normal teenage boy.
I believe that after Holden returns home, everything will become better and make more sense. Holden does need to go through therapy at the mental institution, but I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and Holden will recover and hopefully have a strong bond with his family.
I thought that the ending of the book was weird. Their really isn’t a climax in the story. I feel like this why the ending wasn’t so great. At the end Holden seemed really happy at where is life was at that moment. He still has a long way to go but he was still chose to stay home.
I agree with the fact that the book was very anticlimactic. I was waiting for something big to happen like Holden having a complete mental breakdown or something along the lines of that. It probably was his parents that finally sent him to the mental institution or maybe he finally thought he needed help.
Although the ending was not exciting, it was realistic. We knew from very early on in the book that Holden was mentally ill. There was not much more the book could have done other than wrap up the story. At least we know he went home and got the help he needed.
Yes the book didn’t have a very good ending because we already knew something was wrong with him at the beginning of it. So when they end it with him in a mental institution it wasn’t anything we didn’t know already. I’m glad he decided to go home though.
I definitely think his parents were the ones to send him to the mental institution. They did it so Holden can get the help he needs. I know his parents kept sending him away to boarding schools and it didn’t seem like they cared to much, but in this situation they are helping him.
At the end, Holden tells us how he feels so sick and how he feels like he is going to disappear. Do you guys think that he is just hallucinating from not eating anything or that his mind is wishing that he would disappear from everything that is troubling him?
Greg,I agree with you. Towards the end I feel like all his troubles are starting to go away and he is just happy that Phoebe is happy. Everything in his life might just be starting to come back together.
Holden finally knows that his action affect more then just him. He knows that his little sister counts on him now. With this new knowledge I feel like Holden will get the help he needs so he can start to get his life back in track. I think Holden will start to apply himself because his little sister needs him.
I agree Karlie. I think he is hallucinating or something is happening because of how he was treating his body. He was actually self destructing his body. He did not sleep much or did not get good sleep. He smoked like a chimney, he drank at a young age and then he hardly even ate once he left Pencey. I definitely think he is affected by this and is hallucinating. It is very weird that he is talking to Allie at each corner and is talking about disappearing. This is when I knew he was really messed up and needs help bad!
I never thought of it like that. It is a very good point. He could be seeing things because he is dehydrated or because lack of food. We never really see him eating or drinking anything. When he does drink he is drinking alcohol, which dehydrates you.
Honestly it could be from both. Since Holden hasn’t eaten anything he could be hallucinating. Since we already know that Holden as issues and wants to die, it could be himself wanting to die/ disappear from the world because of everything that has happened in his life.
I think he is hallucinating from not eating for almost two days and because he has not slept correctly either. He also did a lot of drinking on an empty stomach the on night.
I feel like it was a bit of both. Like he was extremely fatigued and this probably caused him to hallucinate but the hallucinations themselves were probably from him being extremely depressed. Most of the time hallucinations come from deep in the subconscious of a person’s mind.
I don’t think that Holden was ever planning on moving out west and building a cabin. He just made it up to keep his mind off of how depressed he really was. It does make me wonder what would have happened to Holden if he would have moved.
I think that as well Stevie. He is not really going to run away and live out west by himself. Heck he has left Pencey for like three days or something and is like dying. He has not ate hardly anything and has no money. He would definitely not make it out there if he ran away. So yeah he was never going to do that he is just crazy and talks about it anyway. He does this earlier when he talks about running away with Sally.
I think Holden is a very confused boy, who is so overwhelmed with hurt, to the point that he is unable to make up his mind. His mind goes from one thing to another, never staying on one topic for long. If he did move out west, he probably would have came back. He would have changed his mind, realizing he made a mistake. He didn’t like being away at school, so he most likely wouldn’t like living out west away from home. That would put him back in that same situation.
We see Holden saying how he wants to move somewhere else all through out the book. He tells Sally that they should run off together and he also tells Phoebe that he is going to go away. I agree that he may be making these plans to get out of the depressed state he is in. It does make me wonder what would happen to if he were to just get up and leave.
In my eyes you can’t run away from your problems no matter how far you go. They will always be there. I don’t think that Holden would have really left anyways. I do wonder though if he did leave West what he do and where he would go.
Holden was so depressed that he wanted to move out west to build a cabin. He wanted to pretty much start his life over and move somewhere where he didn’t know anyone. I wonder if it would have benefitted or made Holden worse if he would have followed through with moving out west.
I don’t think it would have benefitted him because no one around him would have known what was wrong with him so no one could help him. People would judge him and no one would like him. I think it would have been hard for him to feel at home and start a new life.
That could most definitely be the reason he thought of that plan. I think he wishes he could be out west and living in his own cabin where he didn’t know anybody, but he doesn’t want to leave Phoebe. Phoebe is the one person he is happy around and really cares about strongly.
When Holden is sitting on the steps of Phoebe’s school, he notices that someone wrote “F*** you” on the wall. Holden is instantly enraged by this because he thought about all of the little kids that will see it and ask what it means. He then gets pretty graphic and violent and says “I kept wanting to kill whoever’d written it. I figured it was some perverty bum that’d sneaked in the school late at night to take a leak or something and then wrote it on the wall. I kept picturing myself catching him at it, and how I’d smash his head on the stone steps till he was good and ****** dead and bloody”. I mean, am I the only one that feels that this was a little too violent for some graffiti?
I was thinking the same thing when we read this! I remember thinking ok thats a bit much for a curse word written on steps. But then again with the innocence, Holden doesn’t want the little kids to see this or to want to know what it means. He feels like this will infect their innocence.
This is very violent, more so than when he imagined killing Maurice. Holden didn’t want the innocence of the children to be ruined. He wants to protect them but this is a little far in my opinion.
The love that Holden has for the kids is awesome. I think that he had every right to get upset about the words on the wall. I felt like maybe he took it a little to far with his words and threats. But kids should not be reading that or writing that on the walls either.
I know that Holden is sick, but I would of never thought that he would want to kill some random stranger. I understand why he is upset because no child should see things like that while at school. However something in Holden’s mind has caused him to think that killing who ever has done it is a terrible idea. This worries me about what kind of stuff he thinks about that he isn’t telling us.
Holden says a meaningful quote about childhood when he is talking about Phoebe. He says, “The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it’s bad if you say anything to them.” This metaphor is very true and applies to people as they mature in life.
Anna brings up a good point. The metaphor of children grabbing the golden ring and how we as humans need the freedom to grow and mature. This quote applies to all of us and how we are graduating now, and entering the real world.
I feel like if it wasn’t for Phoebe, Holden would have become completely lost. Phoebe is really the only thing Holden cares about in the world. He definitely cares more about her than himself. If it wasnt for her stopping him from following through with his plan to go out west he probably would’ve actually gone through with it.
Phoebe is completly Holden’s “rock”. She keeps him some what sane. He would be a total mess without her and would probably be sent to mental hospital sooner.
With Holden, you never know. He might have gone out and ended up dead somewhere. I think that Phoebe is really the only thing keeping him alive at this point.
I agree Pick Phoebe was someone Holden cared alot about and without her he would feel even more lost and depressed thinking that their is no one else who cares about him.
Am I the only one who absolutely hated the ending of the book? I was expecting to find out what was actually wrong with Holden. This kind of sucks that we are stuck wondering.
I thought there was going to be an absolute brake down that sent him to where he is. I wonder how that went. I bet Phoebe is the one that kind of led him to get help. I would rather know how he is when he gets out of the institution.
I was expecting a huge incident where Holden just went nuts or something that would have led him to get sent to the mental hospital. I think that it is a good possibility that Phoebe is the one who encourages him to get help. But like what actually happened? Does he get the help he needs? Will he ever be the same or normal?
I thought that Holden would see something awful or go through something dramatic that would push him over the edge. However I was shocked when at the end of the story we see that Holden knows that he has a problem and I think he seeks out the help. Hopefully after the help Holden will get his life back on track and will be able to apply himself more. His life impacts more then just him, and that is why Holden decided to go home and face the music and get help.
I wish there was just a little bit more to the ending of the book to find out how it all happened. Phoebe is the closest to Holden and the one who cares about him most. She could be part of the reason he went there to get the help he needed. Maybe Holden did for Phoebe because he wouldn’t want to do it for anyone else.
UH yeah! I honestly wanted to find out if he got out of the crazy house and got back to a good life or if he went and turned down the wrong path again.
I don’t really like he ending, yet I do enjoy those endings more than others. Think of it like this, waaayyy back to Mr. Cook’s English 9 class. You know you wrote a successful piece when you leave the reader thinking at the end. At the end of he book, we are left to assume what happens to holden and how he got to the mental institution. To me, thats genius. And thats art.
I think it is really cool when there is an ending like that because you as the reader can think of many different ways it could have ended. In one way I wish there was more to the ending that told us what happened so I knew, but on the other hand I like the thought of making up my own ending and thinking of multiple ways it all could have happened.
This shows that Holden needed to be in a mental institution sooner. when he was imagining his Brother due to his lack of sleep and food. Holden has so much aggression toward himself for not being able to go to Allie’s funeral. Maybe that why Holden want to kill himself.
Holden has had a really depressing life and he is only 16, with the death of his brother and latter on his roomate, not to mention how lonley he must feel with his parents who dont care about him and he doesnt really have any friends.
I do feel bad for Holden. He has been through a lot and has no one to go through it with. He doesn’t know what to do. This is why he is thinking these horrible thoughts.
At first I hated Holden and I kind of still do just because the book annoyed me a lot, but I really feel awful for him. I cannot imagine going through everything he went through.
Holden should have went to a mental help sooner than what he did. He was showing symptoms of depression soon after Allie died. I cannot imagine going through what he did.
I think Holden might have PTSD from all the death he has experienced at such a young age. Not to mention all he thinks about is death and he is always depressed to he drinks and smokes like a degenerate. Holden is not an adult yet so having to deal with everything he has been through has to mess you up mentally.
I was thinking he had that, too. It is sad. Imagine that being us. He is so young and is going through so much. We complain about doing the smallest things, even about this paper we are having to write. Holden is thinking about these awful things so young.
I agree glow Holden was not mentally ready for all the things that happen to him at an early age was not good for him but I didn’t help that he had no one to talk to about it he was all on his own thats why he always wanted someone to talk to.
I agree with you. Holden has been through a lot at such a young age. He never received the proper help that he needed to in order to cope with the death of Allie. If he would have received the help he needed he would not have gone through everything that he did. Even if his parents just showed some type of concern for him and tried being there for him, he would have been a lot different.
In the end I think its up to Phoebe how Holden does in life she was the ine that kept Holden from leaving to buy a cabin so if Phoebe was to leave or something bad happen to her Holden wont last much longer.
Over all Phoebe was the one that saved his life if you ask me she was the one that he always talked about she was the only reason he would come home every once in a great while.
I completely agree. Holden has always cared deeply for Phoebe and has always wanted the best for her. Phoebe has always cared for Holden and looked up to him. Holden always went to Phoebe to talk to her about things. Phoebe is the main person who has always been there for him and helped him realise that he needs help in life.
I really enjoyed reading, The Catcher in the Rye. At first it was very confusing to understand why Holden was the way he is, but then we found out all of the tragic events that happened in his life, now we understand why he ended up in the mental institution. Holden, was depressed, hurt, lonely, irritable and much more. If it was not for the innocents of Phoebe, Holden may have taken his life because he was talking about suicide many times. I was hoping for a different ending, but it was Holden telling the story, so that was his ending.
I was confused as to why Holden would not let Phoebe go with him when he was planning to run away. He was always talking about wanting to save her and to keep her innocent and from falling into the world of phonies, so why would he not let her go with him?
Mrs. Seidel's English Blog 
I find it really interesting that Holden becomes happy just from watching his sister on the carousel. He is depressed throughout the entire book, but this one moment makes him the happiest he has been. I wonder why that is. Any opinions???
It has to be because it reminds him of his childhood with her and Allie. He must also feel like it keeps her innocent and that she is still a little kid who is oblivious to what the world is.
I think this makes him happy because it reminds him of being a child. He is a 16 but acts like a 12 year old and enjoys all the things little kids do.
I agree that his outer body is a sixteen year old but his inner is a ten or twelve year old at heart who enjoys playing with kids.
I think this makes Holden happy because he sees the joy and innocence in Phoebe. Holden knows the true joy of seeing his sister grow up into a great young person.
Holden loves his little sister more than anything else in the world, he would do anything for her. So her being happy is like Christmas for him he is on cloud nine when he is with Pheobe.
When Holden is walking, he tells us that he keeps envisioning himself disappearing after he steps off the curb. He says “Allie, don’t let me disappear. Allie, don’t let me disappear. Allie, don’t let me disappear. Please, Allie”. Out of all the things that Holden has done to suggest he has a mental issue, I think this is one of the weirdest and shows that he needs help the most. I mean, why would you think that you’re going to just disappear after you step off the curb?!
When we read this part in the book, that’s what I knew that Holden definitely had some sort of mental problem. It was weird, but it shows how messed up he is and how much he needs some help.
This definitely shows that Holden needed to be in a mental institution a lot sooner. When Holden is going through something he refers to Allie a lot to help him. I wonder if he sees Allie still and just doesn’t except the fact that he is gone.
I agree, this does reveal how mentally disturbed Holden is. He could be imagining this due to his lack of sleep and food, which are two other signs that he is seriously sick and needs help. When Holden envisions this, the person he is thinking about is Allie. Allie’s death is the source of all of his emotional and mental problem, which he reveals from this incident.
I think that this does show that Holden has mental issues out of everything else that we have seen. He has said he wanted to die many times, but when he is talking to Allie it’s almost like a whole other issue. We see that Holden obviously misses Allie. Maybe Holden has so much aggression toward himself for not being able to go to Allie’s funeral. Plus Holden saw James Castle after he had jumped out the window. These types of things have an affect on people.
This part of the book is the moment where we see him really having a mental and physical meltdown. It is obvious that Holden really does has mental issues.
I think he’s happiest when around Phoebe because she reminds him of that innocence. I think it reminds him of both Allie and how easy things are as a child.
Phoebe is the closest person to Holden after Allie died. Holden wants to keep the innocence in Phoebe and seeing her on the carousel shows Holden that even though Phoebe is growing up she still has her innocence.
A very good point, Sabrina. She even tells Holden that she is too big to ride the carousel but Holden insists that she get on. Holden knows that she is getting bigger and will soon experience some of the horrible things the world has to offer so he enjoys very much to see her having fun on the carousel as a child.
I agree, Holden and Phoebe have a relationship that is not like any other relationship that Holden has had since the death of Allie. Holden feels comfortable around Phoebe and shares many thoughts with her that he can not tell others.
I believe that Holden is happy watching his sister on the carousel because it is taking him back to the time when he use to ride the carousel. Holden loves the idea of the innocence that a child has and he does not want to think of that being taken away as they become older.
Good point Karlie. I also think that he is happy when he watches his sister ride the carousel is because it takes him back and reminds him what it was like to be a child and he wishes he was still young and innocent. We see Holden show his love for innocence in children all throughout the book and that is just another example.
This may be the point that Holden realizes that he doesn’t want to go away because he would be away from Phoebe. Holden doesn’t want to go through missing anyone and feeling lonely again.
With this scene it made me wonder why he is so happy just from watching his sister on the carousel. I think he realizes that some things in life are good. Him and his sister are close so to watch her be happy, thats all he cares about.
He just loves her innocence. To Holden, kids are his happiness. He finds joy in watching kids be happy and care free.
I think that he becomes instantly happy when seeing Phoebe on the carousel is because he cares so much for her and that children in general seem to make Holden happy.
Yep I got one. Remember throughout the story how holden watches children. He loves watching them and gets a kick out of their conversations and actions. When he sees his sister on the ride, he see’s someone who truly loves and cares for him, with him, and having a good time.
I feel like this makes Holden very happy because of the tight bond him and his sister share. Holden needs to have his little sister, and she needs to have him. They keep each other happy and when they are together, they bond even more every time they are together. They needed this bonding time so they can try to move on from their younger brother’s death. Holden knows that they need each other now, and that is way he is happy.
The ending of the book was really strange I thought. It just did not have no excitement really at the end. Like Mrs. Seidel said there was really no climax to the book and that is the reason there was not a great ending. I am happy he finally went home and seen his parents. They are probably the ones that sent him to the mental instituttion. He seemed really happy there at the end when Phoebe was riding the courasel and when he decided to stay home. Obviously he still needed help but at least he was happy.
I thought the ending was short, I feel like it didn’t really tell what everyone was wanting to know. How he got there? But left us to guess the rest of the story. It told us why but never how. It was a little frustrating. I agree with the thought that he probably went home and his parents sent him to get help.
The ending of the book was strange, ending in a very odd way. Holden decided to stop saying anymore about his past, which ended the book. I wish it would have been more exciting, having more of a happy ending or something. I wanted to know what happens after he gets out of the mental institution, if he changes his life around or continues to be the Holden we all know.
I think that Holden is becoming better and learning how to handle the stress at the end when he finishes his story. He seems to want to make everything better and make his future a bit more hopeful. He does say that he is not sure if he is going to apply himself when he goes back or not. So maybe he wont get back to being a normal teenage boy.
I believe that after Holden returns home, everything will become better and make more sense. Holden does need to go through therapy at the mental institution, but I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and Holden will recover and hopefully have a strong bond with his family.
I thought that the ending of the book was weird. Their really isn’t a climax in the story. I feel like this why the ending wasn’t so great. At the end Holden seemed really happy at where is life was at that moment. He still has a long way to go but he was still chose to stay home.
I agree with the fact that the book was very anticlimactic. I was waiting for something big to happen like Holden having a complete mental breakdown or something along the lines of that. It probably was his parents that finally sent him to the mental institution or maybe he finally thought he needed help.
Although the ending was not exciting, it was realistic. We knew from very early on in the book that Holden was mentally ill. There was not much more the book could have done other than wrap up the story. At least we know he went home and got the help he needed.
Yes the book didn’t have a very good ending because we already knew something was wrong with him at the beginning of it. So when they end it with him in a mental institution it wasn’t anything we didn’t know already. I’m glad he decided to go home though.
I was looking for something exciting to end the book. The ending kinda sucked. I was waiting for Holden to do something really really crazy.
I definitely think his parents were the ones to send him to the mental institution. They did it so Holden can get the help he needs. I know his parents kept sending him away to boarding schools and it didn’t seem like they cared to much, but in this situation they are helping him.
At the end, Holden tells us how he feels so sick and how he feels like he is going to disappear. Do you guys think that he is just hallucinating from not eating anything or that his mind is wishing that he would disappear from everything that is troubling him?
I think that he feels all of the troubles over the time is starting to disappear and that everything in his life may start falling into place.
Greg,I agree with you. Towards the end I feel like all his troubles are starting to go away and he is just happy that Phoebe is happy. Everything in his life might just be starting to come back together.
I think that Holden going to the institution was the best thing to happen to him. It made him have time to cool off and get his mind back.
Holden finally knows that his action affect more then just him. He knows that his little sister counts on him now. With this new knowledge I feel like Holden will get the help he needs so he can start to get his life back in track. I think Holden will start to apply himself because his little sister needs him.
I agree Karlie. I think he is hallucinating or something is happening because of how he was treating his body. He was actually self destructing his body. He did not sleep much or did not get good sleep. He smoked like a chimney, he drank at a young age and then he hardly even ate once he left Pencey. I definitely think he is affected by this and is hallucinating. It is very weird that he is talking to Allie at each corner and is talking about disappearing. This is when I knew he was really messed up and needs help bad!
I never thought of it like that. It is a very good point. He could be seeing things because he is dehydrated or because lack of food. We never really see him eating or drinking anything. When he does drink he is drinking alcohol, which dehydrates you.
Honestly it could be from both. Since Holden hasn’t eaten anything he could be hallucinating. Since we already know that Holden as issues and wants to die, it could be himself wanting to die/ disappear from the world because of everything that has happened in his life.
I think he is hallucinating from not eating for almost two days and because he has not slept correctly either. He also did a lot of drinking on an empty stomach the on night.
I feel like it was a bit of both. Like he was extremely fatigued and this probably caused him to hallucinate but the hallucinations themselves were probably from him being extremely depressed. Most of the time hallucinations come from deep in the subconscious of a person’s mind.
I don’t think that Holden was ever planning on moving out west and building a cabin. He just made it up to keep his mind off of how depressed he really was. It does make me wonder what would have happened to Holden if he would have moved.
I think that as well Stevie. He is not really going to run away and live out west by himself. Heck he has left Pencey for like three days or something and is like dying. He has not ate hardly anything and has no money. He would definitely not make it out there if he ran away. So yeah he was never going to do that he is just crazy and talks about it anyway. He does this earlier when he talks about running away with Sally.
I think Holden is a very confused boy, who is so overwhelmed with hurt, to the point that he is unable to make up his mind. His mind goes from one thing to another, never staying on one topic for long. If he did move out west, he probably would have came back. He would have changed his mind, realizing he made a mistake. He didn’t like being away at school, so he most likely wouldn’t like living out west away from home. That would put him back in that same situation.
We see Holden saying how he wants to move somewhere else all through out the book. He tells Sally that they should run off together and he also tells Phoebe that he is going to go away. I agree that he may be making these plans to get out of the depressed state he is in. It does make me wonder what would happen to if he were to just get up and leave.
In my eyes you can’t run away from your problems no matter how far you go. They will always be there. I don’t think that Holden would have really left anyways. I do wonder though if he did leave West what he do and where he would go.
Holden was so depressed that he wanted to move out west to build a cabin. He wanted to pretty much start his life over and move somewhere where he didn’t know anyone. I wonder if it would have benefitted or made Holden worse if he would have followed through with moving out west.
I don’t think it would have benefitted him because no one around him would have known what was wrong with him so no one could help him. People would judge him and no one would like him. I think it would have been hard for him to feel at home and start a new life.
That could most definitely be the reason he thought of that plan. I think he wishes he could be out west and living in his own cabin where he didn’t know anybody, but he doesn’t want to leave Phoebe. Phoebe is the one person he is happy around and really cares about strongly.
When Holden is sitting on the steps of Phoebe’s school, he notices that someone wrote “F*** you” on the wall. Holden is instantly enraged by this because he thought about all of the little kids that will see it and ask what it means. He then gets pretty graphic and violent and says “I kept wanting to kill whoever’d written it. I figured it was some perverty bum that’d sneaked in the school late at night to take a leak or something and then wrote it on the wall. I kept picturing myself catching him at it, and how I’d smash his head on the stone steps till he was good and ****** dead and bloody”. I mean, am I the only one that feels that this was a little too violent for some graffiti?
I was thinking the same thing when we read this! I remember thinking ok thats a bit much for a curse word written on steps. But then again with the innocence, Holden doesn’t want the little kids to see this or to want to know what it means. He feels like this will infect their innocence.
This is very violent, more so than when he imagined killing Maurice. Holden didn’t want the innocence of the children to be ruined. He wants to protect them but this is a little far in my opinion.
The love that Holden has for the kids is awesome. I think that he had every right to get upset about the words on the wall. I felt like maybe he took it a little to far with his words and threats. But kids should not be reading that or writing that on the walls either.
I know that Holden is sick, but I would of never thought that he would want to kill some random stranger. I understand why he is upset because no child should see things like that while at school. However something in Holden’s mind has caused him to think that killing who ever has done it is a terrible idea. This worries me about what kind of stuff he thinks about that he isn’t telling us.
Holden says a meaningful quote about childhood when he is talking about Phoebe. He says, “The thing with kids is, if they want to grab for the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off, they fall off, but it’s bad if you say anything to them.” This metaphor is very true and applies to people as they mature in life.
This is a huge turning point for Holden. He is finally realizing that he cannot save everyone and people need to experience life themselves.
Anna brings up a good point. The metaphor of children grabbing the golden ring and how we as humans need the freedom to grow and mature. This quote applies to all of us and how we are graduating now, and entering the real world.
I feel like if it wasn’t for Phoebe, Holden would have become completely lost. Phoebe is really the only thing Holden cares about in the world. He definitely cares more about her than himself. If it wasnt for her stopping him from following through with his plan to go out west he probably would’ve actually gone through with it.
Phoebe is completly Holden’s “rock”. She keeps him some what sane. He would be a total mess without her and would probably be sent to mental hospital sooner.
With Holden, you never know. He might have gone out and ended up dead somewhere. I think that Phoebe is really the only thing keeping him alive at this point.
I agree Pick Phoebe was someone Holden cared alot about and without her he would feel even more lost and depressed thinking that their is no one else who cares about him.
Am I the only one who absolutely hated the ending of the book? I was expecting to find out what was actually wrong with Holden. This kind of sucks that we are stuck wondering.
I thought there was going to be an absolute brake down that sent him to where he is. I wonder how that went. I bet Phoebe is the one that kind of led him to get help. I would rather know how he is when he gets out of the institution.
I was expecting a huge incident where Holden just went nuts or something that would have led him to get sent to the mental hospital. I think that it is a good possibility that Phoebe is the one who encourages him to get help. But like what actually happened? Does he get the help he needs? Will he ever be the same or normal?
Yeah I wish we knew more about what he did after he left the institution. I like to think that Holden got the closure he needed after he got help.
I thought that Holden would see something awful or go through something dramatic that would push him over the edge. However I was shocked when at the end of the story we see that Holden knows that he has a problem and I think he seeks out the help. Hopefully after the help Holden will get his life back on track and will be able to apply himself more. His life impacts more then just him, and that is why Holden decided to go home and face the music and get help.
I wish there was just a little bit more to the ending of the book to find out how it all happened. Phoebe is the closest to Holden and the one who cares about him most. She could be part of the reason he went there to get the help he needed. Maybe Holden did for Phoebe because he wouldn’t want to do it for anyone else.
UH yeah! I honestly wanted to find out if he got out of the crazy house and got back to a good life or if he went and turned down the wrong path again.
I don’t really like he ending, yet I do enjoy those endings more than others. Think of it like this, waaayyy back to Mr. Cook’s English 9 class. You know you wrote a successful piece when you leave the reader thinking at the end. At the end of he book, we are left to assume what happens to holden and how he got to the mental institution. To me, thats genius. And thats art.
Exactly! I will just have my own ending to myself.
I think it is really cool when there is an ending like that because you as the reader can think of many different ways it could have ended. In one way I wish there was more to the ending that told us what happened so I knew, but on the other hand I like the thought of making up my own ending and thinking of multiple ways it all could have happened.
This shows that Holden needed to be in a mental institution sooner. when he was imagining his Brother due to his lack of sleep and food. Holden has so much aggression toward himself for not being able to go to Allie’s funeral. Maybe that why Holden want to kill himself.
Holden has had a really depressing life and he is only 16, with the death of his brother and latter on his roomate, not to mention how lonley he must feel with his parents who dont care about him and he doesnt really have any friends.
I do feel bad for Holden. He has been through a lot and has no one to go through it with. He doesn’t know what to do. This is why he is thinking these horrible thoughts.
At first I hated Holden and I kind of still do just because the book annoyed me a lot, but I really feel awful for him. I cannot imagine going through everything he went through.
That was a big Problem for Holden I even think that was what started it all.
Holden should have went to a mental help sooner than what he did. He was showing symptoms of depression soon after Allie died. I cannot imagine going through what he did.
I think Holden might have PTSD from all the death he has experienced at such a young age. Not to mention all he thinks about is death and he is always depressed to he drinks and smokes like a degenerate. Holden is not an adult yet so having to deal with everything he has been through has to mess you up mentally.
Not to mention how much he thinks about death and his own death all the time.
I was thinking he had that, too. It is sad. Imagine that being us. He is so young and is going through so much. We complain about doing the smallest things, even about this paper we are having to write. Holden is thinking about these awful things so young.
I agree glow Holden was not mentally ready for all the things that happen to him at an early age was not good for him but I didn’t help that he had no one to talk to about it he was all on his own thats why he always wanted someone to talk to.
I agree with you. Holden has been through a lot at such a young age. He never received the proper help that he needed to in order to cope with the death of Allie. If he would have received the help he needed he would not have gone through everything that he did. Even if his parents just showed some type of concern for him and tried being there for him, he would have been a lot different.
In the end I think its up to Phoebe how Holden does in life she was the ine that kept Holden from leaving to buy a cabin so if Phoebe was to leave or something bad happen to her Holden wont last much longer.
Over all Phoebe was the one that saved his life if you ask me she was the one that he always talked about she was the only reason he would come home every once in a great while.
I completely agree. Holden has always cared deeply for Phoebe and has always wanted the best for her. Phoebe has always cared for Holden and looked up to him. Holden always went to Phoebe to talk to her about things. Phoebe is the main person who has always been there for him and helped him realise that he needs help in life.
I really enjoyed reading, The Catcher in the Rye. At first it was very confusing to understand why Holden was the way he is, but then we found out all of the tragic events that happened in his life, now we understand why he ended up in the mental institution. Holden, was depressed, hurt, lonely, irritable and much more. If it was not for the innocents of Phoebe, Holden may have taken his life because he was talking about suicide many times. I was hoping for a different ending, but it was Holden telling the story, so that was his ending.
I was confused as to why Holden would not let Phoebe go with him when he was planning to run away. He was always talking about wanting to save her and to keep her innocent and from falling into the world of phonies, so why would he not let her go with him?