Post your discussion for chapters 1-8 here.
Holden is a very odd, and at times overwhelming with his choice of words. He seems to use horrible language on a daily basis, as a way to seem older and tougher. Although he does have an emotional side, especially due to the death of his brother, which caused him to break all the windows in the garage. It seems to me that there is something else that is bothering Holden. Could it be the distance between him and his parents, or is it because of something totally different???
I think Holden turned out to be this kind of kid because his parents sent him away and didn’t want much to do with him. I think it could also be something different to though. Like the fact that he doesn’t get along with anyone can make him be a destructive boy with a bad attitude.
Yeah I am trying to figure out if he is acting like this because he got sent away and just does not want to be happy. Or if it is really just his personality and he cannot get along with anyone.
I agree with you there Amanda. That he is a kind kid and that was because his parents did send him away. His parents did this because they wanted nothing to do with them. I do think that there might be something else going on. Holden does not get along with many people.
I believe that he is showing all of this anger and acting out because he wants the attention from his parents especially after his younger brother died. Even though he keeps getting kicked out of every boarding school he goes to, his parents just send him to another school where he continues to get kicked out. Any teen seeking for their parents attention will act out but they all have different ways of acting out and this is one of the ways Holden is acting out.
Holden needs the attention from his parents you can tell that he is lacking that just by what he says and the the things that he has problems with. When a parent sends a kid off to a boarding school at such a young age all they are doing is pushing the kid out of their lives to quickly and not giving them time to mature and make mistakes around their family where they can correct what happened.
I think that a key feature to the way Holden acts and reacts to things is the distance between Holden and his family. Losing a loved one is very hard, especially to Leukemia or a disease like that. His parents sent him away to school immediately after his brothers’ death. This made Holden feel like he was pushed away and that nobody was there to support Holden in this very difficult time.
I think that this is very accurate Greg. Holden in the book tells us that he is depressed and that he feels lonely. This is more than likely caused from his parents pushing him away and sending him to boarding school right after the death of his brother. Holden was not given the proper time for his grieving or the proper comforting he needed at the time.
I feel like Holden acts the way he does not because his parent took him to a boarding school but because of his brothers death. That is something extremely traumatic and can cause some serious psychological damage to a person. I also think that there could be some pre existing psychological problems with Holden. His parents did take him to get evaluated after all. He is also a habitual liar and that is a major symptom in several behavioral disorders like bipolar, mania, and depression.
I definitely agree with Pick, he was more than likely born with mental problems. I think his brothers death sent him overboard though.
That is completely true Michael, Holden is so distant because he feels as if nobody is there for support and to help him through this difficult time. Losing a loved one, especially a sibling must be very difficult.
This is a great way to look at the problems Holden has. I too think that the problems and the feelings he is having are due to a behavioral disorder. When Holden’s brother passed is to me when he started to really feel the feelings he has now and the reason why he lies to so many people. Another thing I noticed was how much Holden tries to drink. The drinking to me seems like a stress reliever for him but I can see i becoming a bad habit for him in his future.
I do agree that Holden is a very odd kid. Sometimes he isn’t quite of what he is trying to say. He does have an emotional side because of the death of his brother, but that is what made him change into the person that he is today. I do think that deep down something is bothering Holden.
Holden does use that language and lies daily to make himself feel older and maybe more mature. He does have an emotional side that he shows when he talks about his brother Allie or sister Phoebe. I think Holden has the issues he has because of his brothers death then being sent away to boarding schools.
In chapters 1-8 we find out that Holden has gotten kicked out or left multiple schools and is now in a mental institution in California. I am eager to see how this story that Holden is telling us about how he left Pency is going to connect to him getting in a mental institution.
Yes for sure Bethany. I am also excited to see how the story leads up to him being in the mental treatment center. Holden definitely is making the story interesting and I am sure there will be many exciting and key events that lead up to it. I just don’t get why he is not happy. I mean yeah it would be messed up to be sent to boarding school at that age and I would not like it either. I would be just like him I would want to come home. He is doing everything he can to get into trouble or flunk out so he can come home. He has done this with many schools so maybe it is just him and his personality and that he can’t make friends or fit in. I am excited to see what happens next and figure out how he got in the treatment center.
I think his unhappiness has been something that has probably been building up for a long time and probably all started with the death of his younger brother. Since his parents never give him the time of day and just ship him from one boarding school to the next it probably doesn’t help either.
I’m eager to find out as well. I wonder what causes him to be sent to a mental facility, could it be because of his parents?? Maybe they send him, considering they have sent him to many schools away from them.
I wonder what else is going to happen to Holden to where he gets sent to a mental institution. I am anxious to find out about the real story behind Holden. I want to know the real reason he makes up huge lies all the time and why he is so lonely.
Got any theories? I wanna here what you think.
Yes I cannot wait to move on and go even further in the book and get towards then end to figure out why he is a mental institution. I can see why because he definitely not normal. His personality and the way he acts is kind of weird.
I’d like to know the journey that Holden went through to get where he is in the mental institution and how he got there. Im curious as to what major event caused him to be put in there. But like Bethany I believe that there is a major connection from him leaving Pencey to getting put into the mental institution.
While it seems that Holden is being depicted as the kind of guy that you would want to stay away from, I feel like I can relate to him fairly well. With the way he describes Ackley and the other characters, I feel like I know exactly how he feels! His character is very relatable and realistic in that he is just an outcast telling his story and why he is the way he is. One thing I found to be interesting is his relationship with Ackley. At first Holden talks about him like he isn’t too fond of him, but as the story progresses I am beginning to see that they have a weird sort of bond between them that neither of them realize.
Holden does make it seem that he doesn’t really care for Ackley but they do seem to have a bond. I wonder if there is something that Holden isn’t telling us about Ackley, maybe they are more alike than Holden wants to tell us or think. Holden tells us that Ackley is the kid no one really likes and makes it sound like he doesn’t like Ackley either but then he invites him to go with him and his friend to play pinball. Then right before Holden left he went over to Ackley’s room and talked to him.
Both Holden and Ackley do have a bond of some sort, which they may or may not realize. Maybe since they have no friends they stray to one another, not wanting to be alone and invisible. They both are distant from others and don’t seem to be very social. This may be why they have developed a friendly bond, but it is not that close of a bond yet.
I also noticed the bond. They both have trouble making friends, and both seem to struggle with themselves in a way. Holden seems to be there for Ackley, and Ackely seems to think of Holden as a good friend.
I noticed this bond as well and I definitely think it has a lot to do with the fact that they stray to one another so their not alone. Holden at times has shown how Ackley bothers him but at the same time Holden enjoys his company. They both have distanced themselves from other people but at the same time they are complete opposites. Ackley seems to care about his grade and keep his work done and on time while Holden doesn’t really care.
I could relate to Holden very well. He is very realistic on how he is telling his story. I get an image whenever he talks about things that went on in his life. His relationship with Ackley is interesting. Holden does not really like him. But towards the end he and Ackley start talking.
I feel like I know the feeling kind of. I think his relationship with Ackley is weird. He does not like Ackley at first. But they get kind of close with each other.
I don’t think that Holden is very close with his parents because he has been away to many different boarding schools and hasn’t go a chance to be with them. Maybe if he were in a normal public school and could see his parents everyday he would apply himself and try during school.
Good point Stephen, I agree. How could you be close to your parents and them send you away like this and pretty much leave you. I could not be in his position at his age. I don’t know how his parents do it either! I think he is actually smart and like you said he would apply himself if he could be home in a public school he would be happy and try in school.
I believe Holden would start applying himself to his school if his parents would pay more attention to him as well. Stradlater says, “Just don’t do it too god, is all,’ he said, ‘That sonuvabitch Hartzell thinks you’re a hot-shot in English, and he knows you’re my roommate” This tells us that Holden is smart but he is purposely not applying himself.
Do you trust Holden as a narrator? What makes us able to trust him? Does the first-person, stream-of-consciousness narration work for this book?
I feel like I am trusting Holden as the narrator, but maybe I shouldn’t be. He even says that he is the best liar you ever saw. I don’t know, he just adds so many details and makes things so realistic, how could you not believe the things that he says?! I love the way the book is written so far. I believe that it makes the story more interesting and relatable. It also makes it sort of funny. You can’t help but laugh at some of the things that Holden talks about because you know exactly what it’s like! It’s especially funny, to me anyways, when he talks about Ackley going into his room just being weird and annoying. I guess I can relate to this because I have younger siblings who do the same thing to me! Overall, I am trusting Holden as the narrator and I love the point of view in which the book is written.
I trust and believe what Holden is saying because he uses descriptive words and acts like he remembers every detail to each story. It’s hard to not trust him as a narrator.
I too agree with what Holden is saying. The way he describes everything, like everything has happened before. I don’t believe that I should be believing every word he says because he states that, “I’m the most terrific liar you ever say in your life.”
Holden is truly an amazing liar. I agree to that but his descriptions are sometimes rude to say.
There really is no way a person could be so descriptive in their story telling with out a bit of thought and time to organize their thoughts so it makes sense so the way Holden tells the story has to be true.
I don’t trust Holden as a narrator, due to him being a terrific liar. He had even said that he is a very good liar and once he gets started he can’t stop, which is why I believe he isn’t a trustworthy person. His entire life story could all be a lie, considering he is currently in a mental facility. First-person narration works very well for this book, revealing Holden’s personality and life, whether it is a lie or not.
I dont know if I trust Holden as a character or not. If he is telling the truth he is extremely open about his story and if he is lying he an extremely good liar. I find myself believing what he says even when I shouldn’t. I’ve known habitual liars before and he seems to match up with them perfectly.
I trust Holden as the narrator, but then again I do not. Holden is a compulsive liar and he when he starts lying he says he does not know when to stop. Right now we do not really know if most of what he has told us and will continue to tell us is true or not. It’s part of the story that is unfolding and it keeps us on our toes. The first-person narration does work for this book and I really enjoy it. I am anxious to figure out more about Holden and why he is in the mental hospital. The one thing that I cannot get off my mind is whether or not he will get to see Jane. I feel like we do not know the whole story between Jane and Holden. I also want to know more about his parents and how Holden truly ended up in the mental hospital.
I trust Holden as the narrator. I can say this because Holden has no true reason to lie right now so I don’t see a reason for him to lie. I don’t know about you but if I was going to lie about a fight I would have been the winner, so this also makes me think that he is telling the truth because he lost the fight to Stadlater. I really like how the book flows I think that is was a great idea letting us see the world through Holden’s eyes. It makes it more mysteries because you don’t know if you should believe him or not.
I trust Holden as a narrator. Holden earns my trust because he gives such detail into everything he tells. Each detail is filled with his own emotions and a story he can relate to.
Holden as a narrator is kind of scary. He says he’s the most terrific liar that anyone has ever known but at the same time you want to trust him because he’s the narrator the one telling the story. Yes the first-person narration works for this book. It keeps it interesting and gives an insight into Holden and his life.
I do trust Holden as the narrator. But i feel like I shouldn’t trust him. He is the best person to lie, I feel like he lies so much that he makes himself believe his lies. This book is written good. He makes things seem and sound realistic.
I honestly do not trust holden as a narrator and I say this because of his habit of lying or exaggerating the truth. It seems that anything he does say will either be contradicted or proven wrong later in the book. As for the first person, stream-of-consciousness narration, I really don’t care for it. The way he rambles and repeats himself is quite annoying. I know we all do this but reading another person doing it is terrible.
His parents have got to be use to Holden getting kicked out of schools by now it is his fifth school that he has failed out of. And they can’t really be to mad at him because they don’t even make an attempt to help him out any, they just sent him off on his own and said good luck. Do you think Holden’s parents will be upset that he got kicked out of another school? Or do you think they are use to it by now?
I don’t think his parents will be upset at all, but that could be also why he’s in a mental institution. Maybe his parents sent him there because he’s failed out, left and dropped out so many times.
Yeah unless some one picks him up along the way and helps him and gets him to the rehab center. Holden says he does not care that he has left different schools but I sure would think he has to have some remorse for all of his mistakes.
Holden’s parents are use to him dropping out of school all the time. If they helped him out and actually cared instead of sending him off to another school and might actually improve and want to go to school and work hard. Having parents absent in his life has to be hard on him and then not being able to be apart of his siblings life is also very hard. The disconnection between his parents and him is probably the reason why it is hard for him to find away to connect with other people.
Holden is very open with anything he says. He uses vulgar language, a lot. His parents send him to a boarding school, but Holden has no interest in any of them. He purposefully fails every school that his parents send him to. He’s a very hard-headed, bad attitude type of guy, but is also sensitive. He is this way because of him because depressed, lonely, and having no one. Holden lost his brother when he was 13, and his brother was only 11. His parents send him the message that they don’t want him because they send him off the boarding school and boarding school. He has no one to talk to. He has a difficult time making new friends. I feel that Holden is acting out for attention and hoping that his parents will just stop sending him away, and let him stay home and go to a public school just like every other “normal” teenager.
Do you think Stradlater really took advantage of Jane? Or do you think he was just making Holden think that since Holden has a crush on her?
I think he just made Holden think that since he has a crush on Jane. He knew it would get Holden started and that is what he was going for.
I feel like Stradlater did that just to get under Holden’s skin. I dont think that Stradlater really would do that to Jane because he is friends with Holden. I also think that Stradlater has never done anything like that, he is just all talk so he can show off in front of the guys.
Just because he and Holden are friends doesn’t mean he wouldn’t do that. Most guys aren’t going to care what the other thinks and is going to do what he wants to her.
I do not think he really did. He was just trying to annoy Holden.
Maybe I’ve watched too many movies, but I feel like there is definitely something important that Holden is leaving out in this story. He is in a mental institution, so there is more than likely some sort of psychological problem within him meaning that he could be lying about everything he has been telling us so far, or maybe there is nothing wrong with him at all! What if he doesn’t even have a family, and the brother that is supposedly supposed to come get him and take him home, doesn’t exist. Maybe home doesn’t even exist! I can’t wait to read more and figure out why he is in the mental institution. So far, though, I am trusting in everything that he is saying, however this story has got me thinking and has sparked my curiosity.
Nicole I never really thought of this but I can surely see that happening. But if it were to happen, would we find out what his real life is like?
Is it just me or does Holden seem extremely cynical about everything? He is extremely critical of people and seems to see the worst in things. I mean I get being realistic about things but his observation on both people and things are completely pessimistic. For the most part he sounds like an old man complaining about everything.
Yeah, it seems like he always has something to say. He always says, “That really annoys me” and things like that.
I agree Pick, I like Holden but he is kind of a jerk. He is always judging people because of how they look. Then being a young man he complains about almost everything. He complain about Ackley and then he complained about Stardlater, what i’m getting at is he complains about everyone,but in the end he gets over it and is still friends with them.
Holden never seems to look on the positive side of things. He can’t let things go and he is always thinking negatively. Maybe thats why he is having so much trouble with schools and people, along with other things.
Cameron, This seems to be my thought as well. There could be the most positive thing someone could have, and Holden would keep digging to find a negative in the situation. Holden is depressed about the loss of his brother Allie, and is having a hard time dealing with it.
This isn’t a real serious post, but on Friday when we took our quiz I was thinking like how Holden talks in the book. It’s almost as if I wanted to repeat myself 2454 times like Holden does. Am I the only one?
Yeah i found myself starting to try to talk to him and it kind of annoys me too haha.
Your not the only one. Sometimes in the reading I have to go back and re-read the section, because it’s like deja vu. At times it can be a little much on how often he repeats himself, in my opinion
We are all about to have potty mouths because of Holden hahaha.
Ms. Deeble what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
The most interesting thing to me so far in the book is when Holden tells us about his brother. It’s sad that his brother is dead but the way he talks about him is nice. We see a kind side of Holden instead of him judging people or acting like he doesn’t care about things. We see that he is close to his brother when he describes how he broke all of the garage windows and resulted in breaking his hand after his brothers death.
I agree with you I see a other side of Holden went he talk about his brother. Holden dose brother a lot when he went he broke all the of the garage windows and I will act the same way if someone in my family die.
When Holden talks about his brother we do see another side of him. I feel like that side of Holden is who he truly is instead of being rude, critical and lying all the time. Due to the loss of his brother, Holden has acted out all throughtout his life and maybe is the reason he is so hard-headed and rude to everyone.
I don’t know if I can’t trust Holden as a narrator. He even says that he is the best liar you ever saw. I can’t trust someone who lie. He gets started he can’t stop. So I can’t trust him as a narrator. I do like how the book is written so far. I just wish that I can trust Holden on what he is saying.
Well I wouldn’t say I cant trust him just yet because we aren’t that far into the book yet so maybe he gets better.
I am wondering if he just twists the story to make other people sound bad.
Is anyone else wondering what the horse on the cover has to do with the book like does it represent Holden does Holden get a horse I don’t know but
I have been trying to figure it out.
I was kind of wondering that, too. I wonder where the carousel comes in.
I believe the horse means wild, and that the red paint on it means death and that the spear going through the neck of the horse means how the horse died. This horse is Holden, and how he struggles with school and how lonley he is in life.
I could defiantly see that glow but I think that is a carousel but nice try lol!
Mr. Glowinski, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
A simple note would have been just fine.
Holden seems to be a very lonley, obviously he would be because he has no family that seems to care about him, his brother is dead, he also has pretty much no friends. Holden is also forced to go to all these schools that he keeps failing so hes probaily really depressed about his present state and also his future and what he is going to do with his life. I kind of trust Holden as the narrator of the story, but im keeping an open eye out for anything that he says that seems weird or out of place and doesn’t really make sense.
Does anyone else hate the character Ackley as much as Holden does? I feel like the way he describes him and the way he acts in the book makes me want to bash my head in. I usually don’t agree with the way Holden views people but I do when it comes to Ackley. Especially the part in the book when Holden asks Ackley to stop cutting his toenail on the carpet about eight times before he actually listens. I loathe people who do that.
When Ackley comes in and Holden ignores him, I knew right then Ackley was just one of those guys. He seems so big and clumsy. Bull in a china shop. I like how Holden doesn’t really care and just insults everyone all the time. He does that to Ackley a lot, always trying to make him mad by calling him “Ackley kid” that makes me laugh.
The way the Holden describes Ackley makes me think that he really could be an annoying kid that Holden really does not like at all. Then again Holden always looks on the negative side of things, so maybe he just looks at all the negative sides of Ackley and judges him based on that instead of really trying to get to know him.
Ackley is definitely an annoying person. The fact that Holden has to repeat himself and ask Ackley to do things over and over again is very aggravating. Little things bother Holden and that might be one of the reasons why he doesn’t have any friends at Pencey Prep.
I don’t really mind the Ackley guy. He is a little annoying but in the end he seems like a pretty decent guy. He is very nosey but when Holden needed a friend to talk to Ackley was there for him. We can see that their is some sort of friendship between Holden and Ackley because he invited him to the movies. So in the end I hope we get to see more of Ackley and hopefully he starts to become more of a standout in the novel.
I don’t know what it is but when Ackley comes into the reading, I myself can not stand him. I don’t know if its just the way Holden has described him or because Ackley is just so goes like when he is cutting his toenails!!
I think Holden see the worst in people maybe that why he just not like people. He said that he doesn’t like phonies people but he doesn’t try to know the people them first.
I completely agree. However those people were phonies. Or at least some were and Holden knows that. Holden being picky like that just shows that he really appreciates a genuine quality person. Which could end up good in the long run.
Yeah he does not really give any one a chance at anything but at the same time I do not know if some of the kids there would be worth the time of the day being that they do want they want without getting in trouble including stealing what they want.
So as we all know… Holden is at the funny farm. Anyone clawing there brains out wondering why? Reading the book, we know he isn’t violent…. yet. And he talks to other people just like normal. My prediction is that a tragic event is about to happen. Something so devastating and big, that the results would put a person in the loony bin.
Maybe he is in the mental institute as a result of his brother’s death. There is a possibility that he just couldn’t take it anymore. What if everyone in the story are just other people from the mental hospital?!
Hah now that would be a twist. However I don’t think this book is that……. hmm how can a describe it, twilight zone? Interesting thought though. 😉
I agree with your prediction Casey there is definetly going to be an event that happens that will change this book drastically.
I wonder if he it going to tell us what happened that made him so bad. He does seem a little odd now. I wonder what his family life was like after his brother died? Maybe he is going nuts from lack of attention from his parents? I guess we will find out.
I honestly think he could be going nuts from the lack of attention and his brothers passing.
My guess is that something change majorly after his brother past away. I feel that maybe his parents pushed Holden away so he didn’t remind them of what Allie would have been like. His parents push him away and don’t pay much attention to him and that could cause a major event later in the book.
Well I hope he will be okay, you know with his brain being gone and all.
I am so eager to figure out why Holden is in a mental institution. Whatever is going to happen to him has to be something that’s a big deal. I wonder if it’s going to be everything built up from his brother’s death, his parents not giving him any attention, and him just being lonely. Hopefully we soon find out the reasons why.
I wouldn’t say that something bad happens but maybe something happens to where Holden doesn’t act the same he starts to think normal and not act like he is 12.
Holden to me is a very relatable character. He is really, really odd, but he is a teenager trying to find his way through life. Stradlater is also relatable because he is an average 17 year old jock who is obsessed with himself.
He is very relatable. The way he thinks of other people. I think some of the things that he finds annoying, I would also find annoying.
I wouldn’t say that he is reliable yet because we dont really know him yet he said himself he acts like he is 12
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