Add your posts for Chapters 9-11 here.
Holden calls other people phony at times. Do you find him to be a phony?
As the book continues to move forward. I see Holden becoming more of a phony. He has started to act a little bit over his head. Is Holden acting this way to get more attention from people?
He very well could be Greg. I do think that Holden is seeking attention from anyone he can. His parents never gave him any attention because there never there, he doesn’t have a lot of friends so he’s kind of left to fend for himself and with that I think he’s seeking for the attention that he’s been longing for and to feel like someone cares.
Holden is really full of himself. We see that he is always taking about how handsome he is or how good he is at certain things. When he is trying to dance with the girls he calls himself a good dancer. Because Holden is so full of himself I think that this makes him a phony. He calls everyone else a phony so that he doesn’t feel like one himself.
I find Holden to be a phony, who portrays himself as a different person than he really is. He doesn’t try in school,which causes him to get kicked out. In all reality he is very smart, but doesn’t put forth the effort in anyway possible. He uses a lot of unnecessary language, as a way to make himself look and feel more like a man. His language just reveals how immature he is and how he is overly trying to be someone he isn’t. These are all the reasons why I believe Holden is a huge phony, but he hasn’t realized that yet.
So Holden is just like you Stephen!
Yes great point Brooke. He acts really different like you said. The reason he does this is because he is mad at his parents. He does not try in school and acts all rebellious because of this anger and frustration. He is angry because he is not happy where he is at because he has a hard time making friends. So yes he is a phony because he is actually smart just does not try because of his situation. I am with you also on his language it just shows he is immature.
I don’t really think Holden is a phony at all because he tells it like it is or at least makes it seem that way. To me, he just seems realistic and someone that sees people for who they are.
I don’t think he is very phony either. Your point is really good Nicole. He doesn’t beat around the bush to make people feel good about themselves. Holden doesn’t care if people like him or not.
I think that Holden is a phony, he lies about everything. He lies about his age and about who he is at several times throughout the book so far. He also only admires his sister, Jane, and his brother Allie, other than that he thinks everyone else is a phony. Which is ironic considering he lies about his life and everything so much.
I agree with you Carrie and the thing that makes me think so strongly that he is a phony is because he says at the beginning that he is the most terrific liar and how he acted to Mrs. Morrow on the train. Everything he told her was all a lie and she believed every word of it.
He does lie about a lot things. He did lie about his age and he lied several times throughout the book so far. Holden is best friends with his sister Allie. He thinks everyone else in his life is phony.
Holden cannot be trusted. Holden puts much detail in everything he says, which most people would believe is a sign of being trustworthy, but liars can put to much detail into something that could mistaken what they had said before.
I see Holden as completely phony and the main reason I say that is because he is a habitual liar and extremely critical of everyone except himself. The lying part is the majority of it though. He cannot go a day without lying about something.
I have multiple thoughts in my head. In a way, Holden does recognize a phony. For example his old headmaster was a true phony because he put on a face for the parents of the students. At the same time, Holden has a point of view on life and doesn’t seem to see anyone else’s. So he calls them phonies depending on their views.
Holden does not want to see anyone else’s views. Depending on the views of other people he thinks that others are phonies. Holden believes what he wants and thats how it is. He doesn’t care about so much what others think he stands by himself, and thats how he likes it.
I feel that he is a bit of a phony at the moment. He is talking about how everyone is a phony and that they lie and he hates that. However Holden swears that he is a huge lier so its a bit ironic that he hates phonies. He is also lying about his name half the time, which means he has a phony name. His thought process is beyond confusing.
I definitely understand where you are coming from. He is constantly saying who is a phony and why they are phony, but at the same time Holden is lying about his name and thinking and saying he is older than what he really is. Holden doesn’t have anybody to talk to and is always searching for a conversation with strangers. Maybe thats why he lies is so he can talk to strangers and not feel so lonely.
To me what he means by phony, is weird. Holden is the type to think that others would be phony because he doesn’t talk to many people.
Holden calls other people phonies at times because everyone has two personalities. One with family and another around strangers/friends. Everyone has those two sides, except Holden. He only has one, he is all the time just himself. He says in later on when talking about Ernie in chapter 11 that he knows he’s a snob but acts humble in front of others.
As the book goes on yes I defiantly think that he is a phony because he tries to act so much older than he actually is. He tried to get with a thirty year old for god sakes. Then he asks the cab driver if he wants drinks and he is only what 17.
I believe that Holden could very much be called a phony. Holden sees himself as a better person than most other people are. He is always saying how good he is at something. Holden thinking he looks older than what he is makes him seem like a phony because he is only looking for the drinking.
The memories of Jane Gallagher that Holden has, in a way reveal how much he really cares for her. He even says he can’t get her off his brain, even getting upset just thinking about Stradlater being with her. The memory he has of Jane not speaking to Mr. Cudahy, then crying after he leaves, makes me wonder why he makes her so upset. I wonder if he was abusive in anyway, or if she just doesn’t like him.
I agree that Holden definitely has some feelings for Jane Gallagher. He may not want to show it or say anything but its pretty obvious that he has feelings for her. I think Stradlater sent him off the edge when he doesn’t tell anything to Holden about the date. I was wondering if she was abused as well, that was the first thing that crossed my mind.
Holden does not want to reveal his feelings for Jane. He has feelings for her. We learn this because he says he could not get her off his mind. He also goes on about how he wanted to just talk to her that night but was not in the mood to do it at such a late hour in the night.
Holden does have feelings for Jane but he also has the memory of an innocent girl he used to know. I think Holden is more upset with the fact that Stradlater saying he and Jane may have had fun, sets Holden off. Holden has feelings for her, which also could have an impact on how he feels about Stradlater and Jane hooking up that night.
I was thinking the same thing while I was reading that Brooke. Holden asked her what was wrong and if he ever touched her but she denied it. If he never touched her why would she be so upset when all he asked for was if there were any cigarettes in the house.
I want to know the reason why Jane got so upset when Mr. Cudahy asks her if there are any cigarettes in the house. She completely ignored him and she started to cry. Something about Mr. Cudahy makes Jane emotionally and physically hurt. I wonder what that reason is.
I thought about this Anna. I feel like Mr. Cudahy has something to do with the way Jane acts. I think that there may have been some physical harm done or even emotionally damage done. Im not sure exactly what though and I am really curious on what could have happened.
I feel like Mr.Cudahy was probably very abusive towards Jane. Most of the time people who are alcoholics are towards their children. I also feel like Holden is extremely protective of Jane and thats the main reason he is mad at stradlater. He doesn’t want that image of that sweet innocent girl to change into something else.
I think Holden is a phony at times. He said at the very beginning that he was the most terrific liar and that’s being a phony. He lies, is inappropriate and very immature at times.
Good point Bethany. That is what I was going to say. I think he is phony as well because of what he said at the beginning about being the most terrific liar.
Holden does lie to people and is getting himself kicked out of schools. He is failing all of his classes and making it seem like he is not smart at all but all of his teachers and classmates know that he is smart. We do see Holden as a phony throughout the book at times and this is just one thing that keeps happening at all the schools he goes to.
I agree Bethany! The way he is always using bad language, the way he was acting in the Lavender room, and how he was lying to Mrs.Morrows really shows a lot about his personality.
Holden definitely has times where he is very inappropriate and immature about what he is talking about. His thought level can actually be fairly high when he is think maturely and not being immature.
Holden’s personality is one of a kind. He lies, he’s immature, but yet he wants to be grown up at the same time. He’s always lying about his age, in the lavender room, and so on throughout. He also lies to Mrs. Morrow about her son, this definitely shows what kind of person he is. But at the same time you can’t help but feel sorry for him because of everything he went through, with losing his brother Allie and so on.
I never thought of it like that Bethany, he does say something about that In the very beginning. He does lie all time about many things.He immature about a lot of the things he does and with his choices.
Holden is a very strange and different boy. I’m just very curious and anxious to find out what exactly is wrong with him and how, when and why he ends up at that mental institution.
A very good point, Bethany! I find him really weird as well! Why does everyone laugh or giggle when he’s around. I feel like people treat him differently and there has to be a reason for it. Maybe there is something wrong with him that he himself is unaware of…like a mental disability or something?!
That’s exactly what I was thinking Nicole but something with Holden is not right that’s for sure.
I wonder the same exact thing! I also wonder who had sent him to a mental institution and why they had sent him there.
I also find Holden to be very strange. The stuff he does just isn’t something we see kids our age doing these days. He has got kicked out of so many schools for his grades and he is okay with it. I agree with you Nicole maybe he does have something wrong with him and his parents aren’t around him enough to know or to be able to get him help.
Holden is very strange but I don’t think he has a disability. If anything I think Holden was raised differently than most children. Holden is smart but with him flunking out of all the schools he has been to, tells me that there is definitely something wrong. Holden may not even know why he feels or acts this way but Im sure other people see it.
Holden is indeed a very unique type of person and I am also curious to find out why he is in the mental institution. I feel like it will probably be him coming to terms with his brother’s death and the realization that he needs help to get over it. Its like that event has been effecting him throughout the story.
At times it’s hard to not think that Holden is a phony. For an example, Holden was on the train he is talking with Mrs. Morrow, who is the mother of Ernest Morrow. Ernest was a boy who also went to Pencey with Holden. While talking with Mrs.Morrow, he makes up lies about Ernest. In the book it says, “he’s one of the most popular boys at Pencey.” Which Holden goes on to tell us that Ernest is a strange guy in a lot of ways, but it just takes everybody a long time to get to know him because of his personality. Holden also told her that his name was Rudolf Schmidt.
I feel like Holden believes he looks more mature than he really does, which is another example of him being a phony. An example is when he tries to get a drink, thinking he looks old enough and that he won’t be asked for identification. In the end he was wrong, he was asked and was given a coke instead of alcohol. That same night, one of the girls he had danced with had even asked him how old he was, which he seemed to take offensively. “Oh, Christ. Don’t spoil it” “I’m twelve, for Chrissake. I’m big for my age” (Salinger 72). I wonder why he tries to act more mature than he really is, when in all reality everyone knows he isn’t as old as he acts.
Holden also says that he had a lot of grey hairs on the side of his head. We see that even though it maybe true he still doesn’t look old enough to drink. I don’t believe he realizes he isn’t as old as he thinks as well.
Yes good point Brooke! I think thats funny how he thinks he can just get drinks. He is always asking people of age to go have some drinks with him thinking they will believe that he is of age to drink. He tries to act all mature and older than he is but it does not work.
How about the whole Jane thing???
I wonder if Holden will ever talk to Jane again. He says that he wants to talk to her all the time but he just doesn’t feel like it.
He may very well get to the point that he is not in the mood to do anything the way he has his mood swings. He goes from wanting to get a drink and sit in a bar all night to not wanting to do anything but lay on his bed.
I think when Holden gets home for Christmas he will eventually see Jane. He thinks about her all the time and constantly talking about her. Holden just can’t get enough together and gain the power to go talk to her or call her up.
I feel like Holden and Jane got sent off to separate schools and haven’t spoken in years. Holden is scared that she won’t remember him or she might be angry with him for not staying in touch. Something bad might have happened between them when they left for school.
I also wondered this, Sabrina. I’m really hoping that Holden meets up with Jane again and they can have a happy ending, but I’m doubting that will happen!
It makes me angry that he won’t talk to her when she is all he can think about. I wonder if something bad happened where she does not want to see him anymore.
What if Holden and Jane just lost connection but she really liked him back?
99% of the time….. Good things happen to people who are truly motivated. And Holden isn’t motivated….. like at all. He won’t be seeing her and having fun till he gets off his butt. Or till he “feels like it.” Man what a phony. He really is.
I almost feel like Holden doesn’t try anything so he has an excuse to fail. He doesn’t try to get the girl so when someone says why didn’t you go out with her he can say “I didn’t even try because I didn’t feel like it.” Holden is the definition of learned helplessness.
I agree that Holden is very unmotivated to do well, anything really. He spends most of his time making excuses on why he doesn’t do something instead of actually trying. I find it truly pathetic that someone can get so excited about a girl and then doesn’t go see her or anything because he doesn’t feel like it even though he was just excited about it a moment ago.
I agree that great things happen to those who are motivated to work towards things in life. In my opinion I think Holden needs to wake up and smell the roses in better terms. He needs to realize he could have a great life if he actually tried.
He has feelings for her. We can tell this because he says he could not get her off his mind. I dont understand why he wont talk to her if she is the only thing he can think about. Holden she was beautiful in her own way. This also shows that he is really in love with her.
Holden isn’t going to try because he is afraid of rejection. I think that with the other girls, he doesn’t really care. I think he really cares about Jane and doesn’t want to be shut down by her.
Holden has this perfect image of Jane and who she is. He is afraid that if he saw her, that perfect image he has of her would be ruined. He is afraid of it being a huge disappointment for him. In a way I feel like Holden really wants to see Jane and talk with her, but at the same time I feel like he is scared to.
I love that Holden says that Jane honestly wasn’t gorgeous and even his mother did not think she was pretty, but to Holden she was beautiful in her own way. He liked her for herself, not just looks. That shows to me that he is actually a nicer and more sincere person than he makes himself out to be.
He likes her for her inner beauty and not the outer beauty.
That would be one of the very few true good characteristics of Holden. Good observation.
Yeah that is one thing that Holden has going right in his mind at times. He surprised me when he said that he see’s more than just the outer beauty in Jane. It is not often that people look at the inner beauty of people so it makes it nice to hear of some one looking at the inner beauty of another person even if it is in a book.
I like that about Holden also! He realizes that it isn’t all about the outer beauty of a person, that is also has something to do with how they are on the inside. He doesn’t care about many things, but I really think he cares about Jane.
Holden has some serious mental issues. He goes to a club and tries to dance with much older women and tries to buy alcohol. I mean the kid is 12 years old and this is just really stupid that he thinks he can past as a 21 year old, and I dont care if he had a fake ID or how good it looked.
Isn’t Holden 17?
Thats what I thought!
Holden is 17 now, but in the story, he was 16.
I agree Glow he doesn’t seem to have a thought process. He thinks he can get away with anything, but in all reality everyone can see through his crap and know that he is a 17 year old boy. I also do not understand why he would hit on a 30 year old lady. I get more and more aggravative with Holden’s thought process.
In chapter 11 we can really see that Holden is in love with Jane. Holden shares some memories of him spending time with Jane and we notice he has an attachment to her.
I hope Jane and Holden actually can get together!
In the case of Holden and Jane dating is kind of like a junior high relationship really it was more for the fun times they had with out the actual physical stuff. Holden remembers the good times which were quite often when they were together and he likes looking back at it but it is not realistic in a real relationship.
It’s getting frustrating having to read Holden repeat himself. Like geezz man, tell us what is wrong with you already. Is there a freaking reason that he repeats himself so much?!
Holden elaborates on some of the less important details. He seems as if he is frustrated himself. Another reason that Holden repeats himself is that he is in need of attention. He likes the center of attention to be around him.
Holden always states that he looks so old for his age, but I do not think he really looks that old. The women in the lavender room laughed at him and the blond said “so how old are you anyway?”
I am imagining him as a tall skinny guy… I think maybe because he is so tall he thinks that he looks older.
Holden thinks he looks mature for his age, but in my opinion, he doesn’t look any older than what he is. He tries to get the waiter at the night club to buy him drinks, but he asks him for his ID. Also, like you said, the blonde asked him how old he was when they were dancing. Therefore, he must not look old for his age.
Holden thinks that he is really mature but he is just like everyone else at his age. Growing up and getting to the point where you can make decisions on your own. He all of a sudden believes that he is a mature adult. I think that Holden needs to slow down and be a teenager. Being a teen is fun and he won’t get to do it again.
Holden has so much confidence when it comes to his age. He thinks he looks older for his age and he thinks he is much more mature. When it comes to certain situations Holden does not look his age. He likes to think he does, but he is not fooling anybody.
I was very happy to finally get to find out something between Holden and Jane! Since she was always on his mind I kinda figured that something had happened between them. Whether Holden is telling the truth or not we will never know, but considering she is always on his mind he is telling us the truth. I feel like there is way more than what he is telling us about her. I am waiting for him to just go talk to her already!
I wonder what he meant by saying she wasn’t all that gorgeous. Stradlater went out with her? You would think from the way that Holden described him, he wouldn’t go out with an ugly girl.
Holden can’t keep Jane off his mind. This shows that he must really like her and care about her. Hopefully Holden will meet up and talk to Jane sometime soon. I want to know more about Jane and Holden’s relationship.
I was wondering if Jane and Holden would meet up also and if they do I would like to know what happened with Mr. Cudahy. Also I wonder if they will meet and possibly start dating. There are so many things that could happen right now.
Holden is so contradicting and hypocritical, he says “I hate when people do that” or “I hate that.” Yet he does the same things as what he says he hates. He says people are phony, but he lies constantly.
Holden calls many people phonies. He criticizes everyone but he has many of the attributes that he complaines about.
I think everybody in this book is real annoying, Holden including. I find Holden to be so far in the book one of the most likable characters in this book, but he is still annoying.
I don’t think everybody is annoying in the book but I will agree they you MR. Glowinski Holden is the most annoying I hate when he repeat himself over and over.
They do get to your head pretty fast but you learn to get used to it pretty fast at least I did but as the book goes on I think Holden will mature and not be as annoying.
I think when we get more in the book. Holden will become more full of himself. He thinks he is handsome and he acts older than what he is. I think that Holden is becoming more of a phony. He believes that everyone is a phony but he is the real phony.
Maybe as we get more into the book Holden will realize that he is similar to some of the people he criticizes. He will realize that he is a phony because of how much he lies.
I think that someone will give him a rude awakening. I think someone will just let him have it. Maybe thats why he goes to the mental place. He will finally realize that he is not what he thinks he is.
I defiantly agree boat the more the book goes on you can tell that the more the book goes on the more you can tell he is full of himself. He thinks he is a lot older than he is. Hopefully he gets himself in gear as the book goes on but we will see.
When we read more into the book we will find out why Holden is the way he is. Holden seems like he is full of himself or phony, but there is a meaning behind why he is like that. He is seeking for attention because his family does not care and just sends him off to different schools. Holden is always talking about his sister and brothers, so hopefully sometime in the book we will find out if he does home to see them or calls them!
I do think that Holden is seeking attention from anyone he can. His parents never gave him any attention. he doesn’t have a lot of friends so he’s kind of left to fend for himself. He doesn’t try in school,which causes him to get kicked out. If he try in school and get attention but he think everyone is a phony. So he can’t get a attention.
The fact that Holden doesn’t receive any attention from his parents makes him want to get attention from other people. For example, when he was at the night club, he talked to those three older women. He asked them to dance. He was just looking for people to give him attention.
Good point Anna he wants attention because he does not get any from his parents. So any chance he can get he tries to get some attention. I mean when your his age you like attention I mean to go to a boarding school which is like college and you do not get much attention and then obviously being away from his parents who don’t really care or give him enough attention.
I didn’t really see that at first but now that you mention it i can tell that he is deprived of love from his parents so he takes it out on other people.
Your right Anna, Holden is very neglected by his parents. They sent him off to boarding school and now he is not connected with them anymore. He also has very terrible people skills because he pushes away all of his friends and prefers to talk to strangers instead of to his peers. I don’t understand why he is this way, but he just is. I wish he would open up to his friends more, I feel like it will help him grow as a person.
Holden is constantly saying how people are phony’s. I feel like that is part of the reason as to why Holden is always trying to talk to strangers. He talks to strangers because he doesn’t know them and he can’t say they are phony without knowing them.
I think that by Holden calling everyone else a phony, he’s trying to focus all the attention on them and off of himself. I also think that Holden focuses too much on the negative emotions his has and need to turn his attitude around. I’m hoping that by the end of the book, things start to look up for him.
Holden as we read through the book more is showing more signs of a person who needs attention constantly. He goes out and it’s probably really late and tries to find strangers to talk to them. He tries to talk to his cab drivers but they won’t give him the time of day to even listen. This just proves that he always wants attention.
Holden has no one in his life to give him the attention he needs or wants. If he had his family in his life and their support he would not be the way he is. When someone does try and talk to Holden, he always pushes them away and does not want to talk to them. It’s weird because he always says how he wants someone to talk too, but when someone does talk to them he just kinda walks away.
When Holden talks about his sister and brothers we see a different side of him. Holden really misses his brothers and sister and we can tell by the way he talks about them. He says great and meaningful things about them and how much better they’re than he is. He tells us he enjoys talking on the phone with his sister, but is afraid to call incase his parents answer. Holden is a very intelligent boy, but is detached from people who should be in his life. If Holden, had his parents in his life and his brothers and sister he might be a different person. He needs the support and love from them and he does not have it.
One thing I don’t really understand is the amount of details he keeps adding into the story and none of it is really telling us what led him to be in the mental institute! It’s kind of driving me crazy. He talks about the conversations with cab drivers and the ducks and even tells us about his little fantasies. I don’t see the point in any of it. I just hope that all of this is leading somewhere bigger because as of right now, I don’t really get the story and why he is the way he is. I feel like Holden is hiding something.
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