Briar Rose #5

Blog here for Chapters 24-28.

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95 responses to “Briar Rose #5

  1. Josef tells the girls that, “Wars do not make heroes of everyone” (146). Comments?

    • Sabrina Collins

      When Josef tells the girls that, “Wars do not make heroes of everyone”, he is saying that most people are considered heroes after fighting in a war. Josef says this because during the Holocaust they were killing innocent people that were not even in the war. Just because you are in a war does not make you a hero, you have to do something major during the war to make yourself a hero it doesn’t come on its own.

      • Greg Cornish

        Being in a war does not make you a hero because someone that is in a war and is considered a hero must earn that status. Heros are people that are willing to take the chance of risking their lives or put the lives in risk for our freedoms.

    • Bethany Lortcher

      “Wars do not make heroes of everyone” this quote from Josef is meaning that people are considered heroes after fighting in a war but this isn’t always the case. At this time in history, the Holocaust and war was taking place and all the people could do is sit back and watch, keeping there mouths shut or they were going to join the rest of the prisoners. The Germans killed a lot of innocent people who had nothing to do with the war. Josef is trying to say here that just because your in war or involved in it doesn’t make you a hero especially not in this case.

      • Zeb Burton

        Yeah the Nazis had everyone around them so scared that they could not talk out or they would end up in a camp or they would end up shot so there was not local people being brave and speaking out against the rest. Josef was lucky because he was able to escape from the camp and become apart of the partisans which made it so he could fight and try to save some lives against the Nazi rein.

    • The comment “Wars do not make heroes of everyone” is a very interesting statement. It holds a lot of truth in it. Some people during times of war had to do terrible things in order to survive. Surviving by whatever means necessary is not heroic, its doing what must be done to continue living. Some men where made heroes others where simply survivors.

      • Michael Jenny

        I completely agree Pick. These men and women had to sometimes do things that they know was wrong just so they could live. Most of the people gave up everything they believed in, and were told they most love the fatherland while doing so. Josef said ” But I am damned if I am going to love the fatherland doing it”. This shows that he did what he had to live, even though it was wrong.

    • Alanna Deeble

      Some were heroes and some were not. Many of the men fighting in the war were killing innocent people. The men under Hitler’s power were far from heroes. They were conducting genocide. The partisans, as Josef says, were liars, cheaters and thieves. They would do anything to stay alive at any cost. War made them do things they were not proud of.

      • Dayna Blair

        I sort of a agree with some of it. But I believe that if we were in their spot we would try to do anything to stay alive. The war would make us do a lot of things that we would not be proud of. I think that many of them were heros. I believe everyone in the camp was heros because they had to go through all that stuff and they are a hero in my eyes.

    • Ca$3y Rhin3

      Hmph… This is just a thought… No human is the same. Each person would react differently in situations such as war or imprisonment. Some may curl up and shelter themselves and some may take action. So what he may be saying is that not everyone is going to take action in war.

    • Izzy Tennant

      This is not true at all. My opinion is that most people know who have served for our country think that they are better and can come to the rescue, but sometimes that is not always the case. Which wars mess with people when they are done, because they see so much horrid things.

    • Madison Ott

      This is very powerful because he is right when he tells them that. I agree that a war takes a very emotional toll on a person

  2. Carrie Holbrook

    Most wars, when the people fighting come home they are considered heroes. When he says this he is referencing the holocaust. I think he means that not everyone that was there during that time is a hero, most people as he said only did enough to get by they didn’t stop to help others out and only were concerned with their own life.

  3. Brooke Holland

    This refers to the Holocaust, and the people who were held among the concentration camps. At that period of time, the people were not able to stand up for what they believed in or stop the horrible things the Germans were doing. If they tried to be heros, they would have been beaten or killed. Everyone had to worry about themselves, if they wanted to live and make it through this horrible time.

    • Zeb Burton

      Yeah it was really what it was everyone was out gunned so quickly with such a surprise that no one was able to pick anything up to fight back for what they believed so it had to turn into a war where everyone fended for their own.

    • Amanda McGahhey

      You didn’t really have time to even worry about others like your loved ones that were there with you. If you didn’t protect yourself you could have been killed within the first few minutes. I could also see some people giving up and just wanting the German’s to take their lives.

    • Ca$3y Rhin3

      I do agree this applies very much to the situations in World War 2. However, It could apply to any war! Or.. any threatening situations.

      • Madison Ott

        They didnt have time at all to react like you said. They just wanted to have their lives ended for them.

  4. Brooke Holland

    I don’t quite understand why the partisans would want to sacrifice their lives, just so they could become another partisan story. They act like they are Heros for dying, even believed the woman who refused to give her baby up was a hero. In the end the baby still died, this situation ended in death either way.

    • Zeb Burton

      I really think they wanted out of the war before they were found by the Nazis so they just in a sense died in action which in their minds was dyeing as a hero.

      • Ca$3y Rhin3

        That, and they truly disagreed with the Nazi ways, and refused to be under them. I think they really just wanted to stand up to them, or die trying.

    • Sabrina Collins

      The way I am looking at it is, the partisans want to seem like heroes for trying to escape because that is what it would seem like to the partisans in the concentration camps. Also with the mother refusing to give her baby up they may see it as an act of a hero for trying to save her baby from the concentration camps, even though she knew she wouldn’t be able to and that she would get punished for it as well.

      • Bethany Lortcher

        I agree with Zeb. In there eyes there going to be found eventually and they know what the Nazi’s will do to them then so I think it was kind of there way of going out with honor. That way other partisans would tell there “heroic tale” about how they were going to die a hero. They were probably just sick of being in the middle of the war and being surrounded by death.

    • Ca$3y Rhin3

      hmmm… That is a tough thought. Everyone has their beliefs in what is right. These partisans are so passionate in what they believe in, they would rather die than deny there beliefs. This has happened and still happens today in our world. For example, people have been killed purely because they refused to deny their belief in Christianity. Try thinking about your beliefs… do you have any that are so strong that you would die for them?

  5. Amanda McGahhey

    I believe that if you go to war if you don’t do anything to prove that you are capable being a hero then you aren’t one. Just being part of a war doesn’t make you anything. Dying just to become another partisan story is not something someone in their right mind would do. I agree with what you said about the mother not giving the baby up Brooke because you’re right they are both going to die in the end anyhow.

  6. Paige Brown

    Josef tells the girls that, “Wars do not make heroes of everyone,” (146) by this he is saying anyone can go into a war, but not everyone comes out a hero. The way the guards would torture and make the prisoners do cruel things, that’s not a hero. The people that come back from war, they are going to be totally different than what they left as. All the torturing and awful things they had been put through, they won’t think of themselves as a hero anymore. All because of the people running the camps, it destroyed the people inside. It left an emotional and physical wound forever.

    • Sabrina Collins

      I don’t even feel like they were at war they were just torturing people. They would make the prisoners roll around in the snow naked for hours just for their own enjoyment. The guards were cruel and probably did not go home any different than they were before they left. It did leave many people emotionally and physically wounded forever but it was the prisoners and the people of Chelmno not the guards that were doing the torturing.

  7. Brooke Holland

    They pretty much killed themselves, when they could have made an effort to survive to help make a difference. They could have done little acts to make it harder for the concentration camps to run, like they had done before. The partisans could have joined with another group and another, until they were strong enough to do something bigger. However, the group that Josef had just joined is completely different. This group seems stronger, willing to do more without getting themselves killed. They aren’t the type of people to die just so they can be a part of a story told over and over again. They have real courage, unlike the first group.

    • Greg Cornish

      In all honesty, killing themselves is all they did. If they would have put forth the effort to survive, maybe the outcome may have been different. The difference is really that they did not want to survive and were willing to give up their lives to become “heroes”. I do not consider them heroes one bit.

    • Carrie Holbrook

      I agree that they just killed themselves, they even ignored Josef trying to warn them that they would end up dead. They brought it upon themselves. However the new group he’s with now has the same determination as the last one but they seem smarter about how to get stuff done. Rather than just running to their own death they do little things that slow down the Gestapo.

    • Nicole Leporati

      Agreed! They did just kill themselves in order to become apart of a story. I also feel like this was an excuse just to get away from the Nazis as Zeb said. You are so right when you say that they could have helped other people escape. I feel like they definitely could have helped at least a few prisoners out. Now that would have been dying with honor, risking your life in order to save someone else! To me, that’s a true quality of being a hero!

    • Sabrina Collins

      They could have made a difference if they would have joined in with other groups, I just don’t think they had their minds in the right place when they decided this. No one knows what they went through while trying to survive and the pains they had faced but they could have tried to save themselves and help save others, then they could consider themselves a hero and be worthy of having a story told about them. The second group Josef is with do seem stronger and they do not just let other people in they make sure they are not rats and that the person or people are truly in need of a group. They do not want to die they want to survive and possibly help others out that have escaped.

    • Its almost like the first group he was with had given up hope on actually making a difference in the war. All they were looking for was a death that would inspire future partisans to go out and fight for the cause. The new group however, has some fight in them and has the ability to pull off successful raids without being massacred.

    • Izzy Tennant

      I never thought of it like that. They could have survived but they had already given up. They could have each done something to get them a step closer of being out but they figured they were in there and they were just going to die.

  8. Karlie Conaway

    In the beginning of chapter 27, Josef is telling the girls that what ever you have thought about the partisans is all incorrect. He tells the girls that “all of them were liars because they were afraid or because they were brave or because they could not care or because they cared too much.” This kind of confused me. How is someone a liar if they are afraid, brave, didn’t care or cared too much?

    • Greg Cornish

      I am not real sure either, What I took from that is if you were confused then you could not tell the evident truth, so there for you are put under the category as a liar.

    • Zeb Burton

      Largely they lied about themselves being so brave and lied about caring about what is going on. They had to hide their inner emotions so they did not loose faith in others or in their selves.

    • This is interesting, Karlie. Could it be that there would come a point when there was nothing left in life but to die for a cause. Could you become so desperate that dying for a cause would be the only positive way to end it all because you have lost everything, family, dignity and freedom?

    • Anna Hintz

      I was wondering the same thing. I’m sure that the people who said they were brave were lying because they had to be afraid at some point or another. They didn’t want to bring others down by telling them how scared or afraid they really were. They were trying to have confidence and trust in themselves.

  9. Nicole Leporati

    Did anyone else get anxious during the reading last night?! I mean, learning about Josef’s past is interesting, but I want to hear about Gemma! It’s like Josef is dragging his story on and on!

    • Carrie Holbrook

      At the end of chapter 28 it mentions and comes back to Chelmno! I feel like soon we will learn about Gemma, and how Josef came to know her.

      • Izzy Tennant

        Hopefully we will learn more about Gemma because I want to know more! All they did was talk about Josef. They just drug it on and on about him.

      • Madison Ott

        I am ready to learn about Gemma I feel as though she left the book! Gemma is a huge character in the novel so let’s find out what the heck really happened!

    • Karlie Conaway

      Josef’s past is interesting but know that I know he knows who Gemma and who Gemma’s husband was, makes me want to read on. And now that Josef is telling his story to the girls makes me want to know what the girls are thinking of.

    • Bethany Lortcher

      I think the reason Josef is telling us his story first is because it’s leading into something with Gemma’s story. I think it all ties in somehow and he’ll meet up with Gemma at some point in the story.

    • Anna Hintz

      I was anxious too. I just want to know about Gemma. Even though Josef’s story was interesting, I want to know more about how he knows Gemma and her husband.

    • Amanda McGahhey

      I know! Josef’s passed was interesting, but they kind of left us hanging for awhile about Gemma’s past. Hopefully the next reading we get to hear more about her past. I also hope that Becca finds something more interesting.

    • Greg Cornish

      I was very much so anxious during the reading last night. The story has taken an exciting twist and has revealed Josef’s story. Now I am turning my main focus on finding out everything about Gemma.

    • Dayna Blair

      I am very anxious to find out what is going to happen next. I want to find out more about Gemma’s past and I hope we find out something about Beccas grandfather also.

  10. Brooke Holland

    Maybe Josef says this because he knows that when they are afraid, brave, didn’t care or cared too much, that they didn’t want to admit it to themselves. This would be a lie, a lie they tell themselves and hide from everyone around them. That is my opinion on what Josef means by his comment.

  11. Bethany Lortcher

    When Josef said this I think he meant that they were liars because they were scared but would never admit it. Before Josef’s first group went in to attack the storage depot they all knew that death was probably going to be the end result but none of them would say it so Josef did. They didn’t really care about there lives because they thought they were doing something honorable. They were lying to themselves. They didn’t care but wouldn’t admit they were afraid of the end result of death.

  12. Stephen Goetz

    “Stephen walks in late to class.”
    Mrs. Seidel reads, “You are, I am sure, not like most young people and will be on time.”
    When Becca and Magda meet with Josef.

  13. Does anyone else think that the first group of partisans Josef was with almost wanted to die? They knew exactly what waited for them at the supply depot and they still went. And for what? Honor? They could’ve at least planned out the raid a bit better so they could at least carry out the raid before being cut down by machine gun fire.

    • Dallas Yost

      Yes for sure pick I thought that as well. First off they only had like four guns for like eight people. Then they have a plan of blowing up the sylos and yes they knew they were obviously out numbered and would die. Then Henrik gets mad at Josef when he says something about dying and makes him give up his gun. When you do something stupid like this with no plan its definitely for just honor. Soldiers during this time had great honor and were really fearless.

  14. I’m starting to see the correlation between Gemma’s story and the story Josef is telling Becca. Gemma says that a young prince rescues her from the long sleep. Who has adopted the nickname prince? Josef. So by going by this information I think that Josef will eventually be part of a raid to liberate the extermination camp and free Gemma. This is all based on predictions of course. Does anyone else think differently?

    • Brittney Reising

      I agree, Josef was the missing link Becca needed. Now the two stories are starting to correspond. We are able to connect Gemma’s story with Josef’s and are also learning about his side of what had happened.

      • Taryn

        There has to be a connection. The whole prince and princess thing makes me curious. Who was Gemma that everyone knew her? It seems like everyone Becca has talked to has some kind of connection. It’s like her life story is an actual fairytale.

    • Alanna Deeble

      I saw that connection too, Gemma told Becca to find her prince and I believe Josef may be him. When I read that they called him Prince it definitely made me think back to Gemma’s story.

    • Noah Dotson

      I think that very well could be a possibility. Especially with all the evidence that is given. Maybe since Josef said he knew Becca’s Grandfather too he will be with her at the camp.

    • Izzy Tennant

      I feel as if Gemma was the one who is “Sleeping Beauty” and was alive for all of it but she was sleeping through the whole thing. She just woke up and went on from there. This is all slowly starting to make scene of things.

  15. Noah Dotson

    Is anyone one else wondering if her Grandfather is still alive? What Im hoping is after Josef gets done telling the girls how he knew Gemma he will then tell them about Becca’s Grandfather and if he still still alive.

    • Taryn

      I think that at the end of Josef’s story, he might reveal her grandfather. It is killing me having to wait to see how Josef knows Gemma. I think we may be close, since he is with this new group and they just met up with a bigger group. I don’t know what their connection would be, enough to make him cry when he sees the picture of her.

    • Alanna Deeble

      I am wondering that too! And Gemma had Josef’s ring so they are definitely connected, there is no doubt. At the end of our reading, he said he arrived at Chelmno and that is linked to Gemma as well.

    • Brittney Reising

      This also makes me wonder how he finally met Gemma. I hoping that soon we find out more about her and Becca’s grandfather. It will very intresting.

    • Cameron Lloyd

      If Josef reveals Becca’s grandfather to her that is definitely going to be her next journey is too find out more about his past and how him and Gemma connected and how it all started.

    • Dayna Blair

      I really hope that soon enough we will learn something about her grandfather or even meet him. I was also wondering how Josef knows Gemma . I hope in the next reading we find that out and find something out about Beccas grandfather. Josef and Gemma are connected somehow and I’m wondering how.

      • Thomas Boatright

        I was hoping to but i think that Becca grandfather is die. I think Josef and Becca grandfather save Gemma form a camp. Becca grandfather die when they leaf.

  16. Jacob Glowinski

    The quote from Josef “Wars do not make heroes of everyone” means that you can be in a war but that does not make you a hero. A hero is someone who fights for good and does his job to help the guy next to him and be willing to lay down his life to save his friend.

    • Michael Jenny

      Your spot on Glow. A true he fights for others not themselves. So far every ” hero” has only fought so they could stay alive, not to end the war. Josef group only attacked the camp because they knew they were going to die, noble yes but however it was the wrong reason. They did it so people would make stories about them not to help the war efforts. So far there is no true hero in the story, that died for a real reason.

  17. Thomas Boatright

    When Josef tells the girls that, “Wars do not make heroes of everyone”, that people are considered heroes after fighting in a war but this isn’t always the case. Josef was trying to say that just because your in war in it doesn’t make you a hero. You are just trying to Surviving in the war and after.

    • Dayna Blair

      I believe that anyone could be a hero in their own eyes. Other people are heros to other people that might not be a hero to another person. A hero is something different for each person.

  18. Cameron Lloyd

    There are definitely heros that come out of a war, but just because you were a part of the war does not make you a hero. Being in the war and being a part of the war are two completely different things. If you are in the war that means you believe in a cause and you are fighting for that cause with your life.

    • Jacob Glowinski

      I agree with you Cameron. Look at are enemy in the middle east, they probily think they are hero’s in their county but they arent. They use drugs to get pumped and even work enough courage to even go to war versus us who go to war with the will to fight for a true cause and real courage.

  19. Alanna Deeble

    I cannot wait to hear the part about Gemma. I understand why Gemma did not tell her family her real story of her past because if it is anything like Josef’s, then it would be hard to talk about but I wish we could hear her full story instead of a second hand version. I feel like even if I had a difficult and painful past, I would still want to tell my family about it.

    • Cameron Lloyd

      I understand why Gemma didn’t tell her family because it is definitely a tough story to share and explain. Her family would have many questions for Gemma which would also make it tougher for her to continue to talk about it. Then again I feel like she should have told her family because it is an important story and her family should know. I think its great that one person was interested enough to find out who her grandmother really was and she can share it with her family.

    • Brittney Reising

      I wouldn’t want my family to know if I had a horrible past either. I might leave more evidence than Gemma did. I would leave a note before I die in my belongings when I was getting ready to die.

    • Anna Hintz

      At first I didn’t like the fact that Gemma didn’t tell her family about her past, but now after hearing Josef’s story I can understand why she didn’t. It would definitely be difficult to talk about such a tragic story like this. If Becca figures out the whole story about Gemma, I wonder if she will go back home and share what she learned about her grandmother to the rest of her family.

      • Courtney Adkins

        I felt the same way. I just wanted Gemma to tell Becca and her family everything. Now after reading so far into the story I could understand why she never talked about it. Something that tragic is hard to talk about. I am very anxious to see everything that Becca finds out about Gemma’s past. I feel like she will go back home and tell her family everything just so they know what went on and so her sisters can finally see why she was so committed to finding the truth out. She also, has to put everything that she finds out about Gemma’s life into a story for work.

  20. Brittney Reising

    “Wars do not make heroes of everyone” I think Josef feels that even though he made it out of the war that he doesn’t quite view himself as a hero. Heros are known for their acts of good deeds and triumph. Josef is a surviver but he seems himself as someone who escaped. Not everyone in a war will be a hero, some die and no one even remembers who they are in time.

  21. Taryn

    I’m so curious to see how this story with Josef ends. Is he the prince that saves Gemma? Where does the castle come into place? I think that maybe when Josef and the group that he is in now goes on their mission, he will personally save Gemma.

    • Noah Dotson

      Maybe there is something in the castle that Gemma wanted Becca to have thats why she made her promise to find it or maybe Becca’s Grandfather lives there.

      • Courtney Adkins

        I too have been curious as to why Gemma wanted Becca to find all of this out on her own instead of just telling her. There has to be something or someone at the “castle” that Gemma wanted Becca to find. I hope Becca finds all the answers she needs and I am very anxious to see how the story ends.

    • Michael Jenny

      Im am very curious also to see what will happen. I think that Josef was not the man that helped Gemma escape, but however they became friends after she escaped and joined the group. I have no clue what the castle has to do with the story so far. I also want to know who Becca’s grandfather is, so far I have no clue who it could be.

    • Brooke Holland

      Maybe Josef gets caught and sent into Chelmno, where he later befriends Gemma. Then after awhile they escape, just as Josef had done before. He could have been the prince who saved the princess, which in this case would be Gemma.

    • Anna Hintz

      I definitely think that Josef is going to be the one who saves Gemma in some way. I can’t wait to read on and figure out how Josef knows Gemma. I can’t imagine the feelings Becca is having while Josef is telling her his life story.

    • Jacob Glowinski

      I agree its going to be real interesting to see how this story pans out and if Josef has a greater role then just being the guy who tells Becca about Gemma.

  22. Michael Jenny

    I had no clue that Hitler killed other people besides the Jews. I thought that Hitler only killed the Jews because he blamed them for the war. I learned from this book that Hitler killed anyone that he didn’t like. He killed Gays, Gypsies, people that spoke out against Germany, pretty much anyone that he disliked for any reason would be sent to a camp to die.

    • Taryn

      I had no clue either. Not until this book.

      • This book really explains the depth of the Holocaust. It goes into a lot more detail than anything we have read about this subject. I have really learned a lot more about the Holocaust since we started this book.

    • Jacob Glowinski

      Yeah it does surpris alot of people about that because most people think of the murdering of jews when it comes to the Holocaust.

    • Thomas Boatright

      Yea I don’t know that to. I thought he just kill Jews too. I didn’t know that he killed Gays,Gypsies and people who spoked out against Germany. That one thing that I learn of the book and I didn’t learn in history class.

  23. Courtney Adkins

    When Josef tells the girls, “Wars do not make heroes of everyone.” I think he is saying that just because you are in the war does not mean you are a hero. Anyone one can go to war, but how do you want to be remembered from being there? I think most people only come out being a hero if some big event happens. People do not necessarily have to die in order to be a hero. During this time no one could really be a hero. If someone stood up for what they believed in they were killed or beaten.

  24. Dallas Yost

    Josef tells the girls “Wars do not make heroes of everyone.” He is saying this because everyone in a war cannot be a hero and their are only a couple names you remember from a war and they usually are the higher ranked soldiers. Also the soldiers make a name for themselves in big battles or events. Another reason I think he says this is because you can be a hero without war and killing. You can stand up for whats right and what you believe in without killing and just by showing that courage to stand up and be yourself would inspire others, therefore you become a hero in some peoples eyes. During World War two and the holocaust it was hard to be a hero because you could not stand up for whats right or follow your beliefs because of the Nazi group thinking they were superior and wanting to kill everyone who was not acceptable.

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